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tv   Martin Bashir  MSNBC  April 22, 2013 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT

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thank you, toure. good afternoon, it's monday april the 22nd. the mystery of the brothers tsarnaev has begun to unravel. slowly but surely. >> awake and communicating. police questioning the surviving boston bombing suspect. >> they were going to attack other individuals. >> investigators still trying to piece together the how and the why. >> yeah, you know, it's really a tragedy that it's happening right now. it's a sad thing. >> what happened in the last two to three years in the mans of the brothers? >> should be designated as a potential enemy combatant. >> i do not believe he is eligible for that. would be unconstitutional. >> mirandizing him up front would be a horrible idea. >> the key is getting information. >> that's where the threat is coming from. >> it's important for us to understand the gaps and loopholes in our immigration system. >> those who are pointing to what happened as a, i would say, excuse for not doing a bill or
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delaying it many months. >> i never said that. >> i didn't say you did. >> i never said that. >> i didn't say you did, sir. at this moment just a week ago we were learning details of two explosions at the crowded finish line of the boston marathon. today, one suspect is dead. the other now charged in his hospital bed with conspireing to use weapons of mass destruction. 19-year-old dzhokhar zorn yef s tsarnaev is charged with malicious destruction of property resulting in death. the charges could carry the death penalty. after much speculation, the white house explained today why tsarnaev will not be prosecuted as an enemy combatant. >> he will not be treated as an enemy combatant. we will prosecute this terrorist through our civilian system of justice. under u.s. law the united states
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citizens can not be tried in military commissions. and it is important to remember that since 9/11, we have used the federal court system to convict and incarcerate hundreds of terrorists. >> tsarnaev now lies under armed guard unable to speak due to what may be a self-inflicted gunshot wound in his neck. authorities continue to question him, relying on written answers at this point. but his answers may be somewhat less important in his prosecution given the volume of evidence in the federal complaint, including description of video after the first explosion. "bomber two virtually alone among the individuals in front of the restaurant appears calm. he glances to the east and then calmly, but rapidly, begins moving to the west. away from the direction of the finish line. he walks away without his knapsack. having left it on the ground where he'd been standing. approximately ten seconds later, an explosion occurs."
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the complaint also contains details from the carjacking victim who says one of the suspects said to him, "did you hear about the boston explosion? i did that." those chilling words from the charges against tsarnaev came as the city of boston honored the victims of the deadly attack with a moment of silence at 2:50 this afternoon. that silence echoed in congress and by the president who held a private observation. in the town of medford, hundreds gathered for the funeral of krystle campbell, a young woman who will never see her 30th birthday. thanks to the brothers who allegedly carried out their deadly deeds in the crowd where she stood and cheered. i want to bring in nbc's luke russert with us from copley square in boston, and here in new york, nbc investigative producer bob windram. bob, the criminal complaint has been served against dzhokhar
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tsarnaev. you've head it. how damning is this complaint for the suspect? >> i think what you have here is a very strong complaint. remember, this is not an indictment. and this was not an arraignment today but an initial appearance. one of the things that struck me, as i was reading it, was the description of the search warrant executed in his dorm room at the university of massachusetts. at pine dale hall, they found a pyrotechnic device. not further explained. they found what appears to be the white hat that he wore and the black jacket that he wore. as well as bbs. so what you have throughout this charging sheet is a number of very specific details that go to what appears to be a strong complaint against him. now, what happens as we go forward in terms of witnesses is not explained in this, but you can expect to see a large number
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of people coming forward, remember, everybody has those videos. everybody who had those stills are going to be asked very specifically what they saw that day. >> indeed. luke, the boston police commissioner sounded confident that these suspects planned to attack others. i'd like you to take a listen to what he said on sunday. >> we have reason to believe based upon the evidence that was found at that scene, the explosions, the explosive ordnance that was unexploded and the firepower they had that they were going to attack other individuals. >> luke, what are we learning about the kind of weaponry these suspects could potentially have brought to bear? >> reporter: oh, it's quite extraordinary, martin. you heard bob windrem right there touch on it a little bit in terms of the pyrotechnics. from what we've heard from officials is the reason why the fbi made that decision on thursday to come public with the photographs was because of the worry if they did not do that,
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that these brothers could possibly have some other type of explosion. so the theory was if you do not -- we're going to risk them muscling up with their firearms that they had. they were not registered. they were illegal guns. they had other types of ied explosives. some used in the fire fight, others presumably at their location, the apartment and the dorm room. that decision by the police was because they would rather have allowed the brothers some sort of time, perhaps, to get armed or do whatever, and anything in between would be collateral damage. they thought that would be more important than allowing them to perhaps carry out another attack. it's a fascinating development as this story moves on. >> luke, in addition to the explosive devices, what are we learning about the actual guns that these young men had? >> reporter: well, we learned, i believe they were handguns, but we learned from the cambridge police department that they did not have any permits to be used.
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they had never filed for permits. so we do know know exactly where they came from. these were illegal guns. these are guns that these individuals are not subjected to background checks or any of those things we have been talking about in light of what happened in the united states senate last week. so somehow these two brothers were able to acquire firearms. it's unclear exactly where they came from. but they were presumably quite skilled in using them as they were engaged in this fire fight on thursday evening. it lasted for a long amount of time. and the second brother had one inside the boat with him and returned fire with the police. that will be a very interesting question, where specifically those guns were able to come from, martin. >> indeed. luke russert, bob windrem, gentlemen, thank you so much. >> take care. >> for more on the suspect and case again him, i'm joined by robert mcfadden, former deputy of ncis counterintelligence operations, now a senior vice president of the sufan group.
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this individual came to the attention of the fbi. but i'm assuming plenty of individuals come to the attention of the fbi. he'd been living here, they'd been living here for over a decade. had not been involved in any kind of serious criminality. did the fbi really drop the ball here? or is it perfectly understandable as to why nothing was pursued? >> no indication coming out right now in the public realm that the fbi dropped the ball. knowing about these types of things, working with the fbi, my former organization, ncis. when a request comes in through foreign liaison like that, in this case it was the russian sfb, rough equivalent of the fbi, a lot of it, most of it depends how much information was provided in the lead. how compelling it was. from what we've heard so far, the fbi went by procedure. conducted the interviews, checked the database, all the indices, then went back to foreign liaison, said, what else was there? apparently there was nothing any more compelling. >> what can you hope to achieve
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simply by interviewing a couple of individuals who are not going to tell you anything more? there's no warrant to search their premises. what else can you gather? >> sure, it's not just those individuals. depending upon the depth of the lead came in. interviews of friends, associates, teachers, family members. but in this case, until we hear otherwise, i would take it in good faith that a thorough look was done and what we heard earlier today, there different thresholds of this kind of lead and investigation. there's an assessment from the investigation and a full investigation. in this case, what we're hearing, it was that lowest threshold. >> now, senator lindsey graham is saying there was misspelled paperwork in the form of misspelled names. which resulted in a failure to follow up these individuals. is it really possible that a simple spelling error may have caused a breakdown in the communication here? >> i -- short answer, i don't know in this case. however, i will tell you that transliteration, in particular
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from arabic, for example, translated to english, vice versa, at times can cause con nu confusion to the system but not a breakdown. >> the relationship between intelligence agencies here and russia and perhaps a lack of cooperation between the two. >> well, at least through my time in government, with most allied countries and even nominal allies, at the law enforcement level and intel, usually quite good. it's kind of a comrade in arms type approach. there is, however, though, martin, sometimes there are political considerations. we don't know if we have that here. but in this case, if there was something really compelling on the russian side, it brings up the question, why was he allowed to travel to russia, why was he not stopped there and why was a notice not put in interpol to alert other countries about what they had? >> one person we haven't heard much from is tamerlan's wife. what sort of picture do we get of her and what potential
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information could she provide? >> well, of course, a key potential witness. immediate family members help paint that 360-degree profile of what happened from the time of the event backwards. here's a big however to consider, though. okay? not saying this is associated with the old al qaeda, but like-minded groups tend to pull good tactics off the shelf. in the case of the old al qaeda under bin laden, they were the masters of compartmentalization. we might not be surprised if he kept that information, if not all information, from his wife. now, there's a possibility that she may in some ways have been wh whitting. if he had that type of training, they're very good at the need to know. >> but this is an individual he had a relatively long relationship with. and you're suggesting that he might have been able to hide everything from her? any of his inclinations of
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hatred toward america if he had that feeling toward america? he would have hidden it all? >> yeah, these are the kind of things invariably being figured out right now. what happens, though, often in a situation like this, if, again, hypothetic hypothetical, someone's very good at compartmenting things. indicators may come out a wife, brother, immediate family or neighbors weren't aware of. then after the fact it starts to come together this may have been that -- that's what, you know, in putting an investigation together like this, it will build the complete picture. and i know for viewers it's probably, well, that's all in good to figure out what happened up to the event. you know, these are the type of things that law enforcement intelligence will use to help build better security for the future. but right now it will be really interesting to see what the relationship was with the wife up to the time of the event. some of the triggers of behavior, for example, when we're hearing, again, this is from open-source reporting, that
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there was, let's say, a more radical approach to the tenets of his faith. what are the indications that what caused it to go from taking a narrative of violence if it happened that way then taking the constructive act toward violence? >> is it your view these two were largely unattached? as you look at the available evidence, available to all of us? is it your view they were unattached to any major terrorist organization? >> at this point -- >> are there any signs that suggest to you that they may have been linked, coached, provided with munitions by an organization? >> yeah, and besides are there other acts already in play? that is absolutely the question. look, what we have right now is a period of travel with a lot of questions. an ability to link up with groups, or in a lot of the cases, martin, especially in the post-9/11 environment, you have an individual that essentially self-motivates, self-recruits.
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typically they're self-motivated in recruit, go on their vision quest. in this case, again, hypothetically, he had the time, if not the opportunity to link up. >> six months. >> right. it will be absolutely compelling and critical to find out if there was a linkup, the degree if training and probably most importantly here, was he tasked and dispatched like the times square bomber? >> thanks so much. >> my pleasure. coming up, where should dzhokhar tsarnaev be tried? and why is senator lindsey graham upset at the nation? stay with us. i believe our nation is at war. the enemy is radical islam, the taliban, al qaeda and affiliated groups. i've always had to keep my eye on her... but, i didn't always watch out for myself. with so much noise about health care... i tuned it all out. with unitedhealthcare, i get information that matters...
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as investigators attempt to put together a cohesive puzzle of what motivated last week's deadly bombings in boston, they're pulling at one particular threat. it is the six months last year that tamerlan tsarnaev, the elder brother, spent in russia. who did he meet during that period? where did he go exactly? what, if anything, happened there that might have driven him to commit the heinous act for which he and his younger brother stand accused? we're joined now on the phone by nbc's adrian mong in the region of southern russia where mr. tsarnaev is said to have traveled. you just completed interviews with the parents of these brothers, i believe. it was previously reported that they believe their sons were completely innocent. is that still their view? >> reporter: yes, martin. that is absolutely their view. and i think you actually hit
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exactly the right question when you said investigators are trying to paint a cohesive, coherent picture. the parents would not talk about many things that they've already mentioned in earlier reports. but one thing that they have been consistent so far is that they believe absolutely that their sons are innocent. they took a lot of time to describe what kind of men they believe their sons to be. they said that they were gentle, almost like women, and that they were always in touch with the parents and that this is not the picture, the picture that we're seeing on television and in newspapers, the parents say, is not what they know of their sons. >> so they're saying they were like women? so, therefore, not radicalized? not in any way minded or, i guess, disposed to any kind of physical violence against
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anyone? like women? >> reporter: i wouldn't want to speculate. one would guess they are trying to paint a picture of people who wouldn't be capable of such crimes. yes. >> now, the russian security services, thatvy interviewed the parents? >> reporter: yes. the mother corn firmed with us the sfb, russian federal security services, their local branch here in dagestan, went to meet them, i believe it was friday night, by the time they had heard the news here in russia. she described it as a very helpful meeting. they were trying to be -- they were trying to give them assistance. she alluded to the fact that they, the security services helped arrange two interviews with russian media. and she said, as well, that the
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russian security services told them it was a setup. now, we don't know if that's true. the mother has consistently said that she believes this whole thing is a setup of her son. >> final question, adrienne. there's been some suggest the father may, indeed, be traveling to the united states. is that true? >> reporter: that's right. when we asked him outright, what are your plans? are you going to the u.s.? he said he was planning to. but he had some certain problems to deal with and he wouldn't elaborate. then when we spoke to the mother a little while later, she let it slip that he was planning to fly tomorrow, wednesday, to the u.s., but now they've been instructed to -- excuse me, not instructed, but they have now another meeting with the russian federal security services. this time it's a delegation or team coming from moscow. >> adrienne mong, thanks for your reporting.
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we turn now to ann, a psychologist, and author of the recently published book "talking to terrorists" and former secret service agent dan bargino who worked with russian intelligence during his stays in that country. doctor, you were just doing training today, i believe, with the fbi. you've also interviewed a number of chechen terrorists in the process of your academic research. what did you learn about their motivation? what is their strongest and most consistent driver? >> well, martin, you're right. i did interview terrorists around the world, and we studied 112 of the suicide bombers from chechnya. that's how many there were. we did what we called psychological autopsies on half of them. that means we spoke to a family member and reconstruct what put them on the terrorist trajectory and what might have prevented them, or if they were still alive, how we could have gotten
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them back off of it. and we found in the chechen case, it was very trauma and revenge driven. almost everyone that had been a suicide bomber in the chechen conflict -- i shouldn't say almost -- all of them had lost a family member to the two wars of independence with russia. as you know, the russians were very heavy handed in those two conflicts. there was a lot of human rights violations. and things went terribly wrong there. it was a secular uprising to begin with. >> dr. speckhard, how does the oppression of the russian people, army, military, on the chechens, cause two individuals to seek to vent their anger and vengeance against the united states? >> it's a really good question, martin. it's a question we're still looking for the answers to. my guess is, the secular uprising that happened in chechnya at the time of the fall of the soviet union was completely secular. when the chechens didn't get
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independence as belarus and others did, foreigners came from the afghan jihad and infiltrated the whole movement and turned it into what i call the chechen jihad. so that means chechens went abroad and joined al qaeda-type groups. and also funds and ideology came into the chechen uprising and that's when they began their cam page of suicide bombings. they didn't ever have this in their past. chechens don't follow any of these extremist movements except for the rebel movement. and i think that possibly in his trip to dagestan, the older one was introduced extremist thoughts and generalized view of the narrative for these groups is muslims are under attack all over the world, we have to strike western powers. and we did see on his website that tamerlan was feeling great sympathy for the syrians who also are facing a heavy-handed
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fist right now in their uprising. >> dan, we read today in the "wall street journal" tamerlan tsarnaev nearly wore out his welcome at a local mosque in cambridge. he reportedly got angry over the celebration of martin luther king day. he even got angry at a butcher who was selling thanksgiving turkeys. what does that say to you about his mindset? >> well, it's clear looking at it from an investigative perspective that tamerlan was angry. and had a propensity toward violence. i mean, we have a potential domestic violence charge. conveniently he found boxing as an avenue for his energies. you know, martin, violence is a disease that plagued the human heart from the beginning of time. despite the pain it causes, you have to remember there's power in it. there's power in the ability to exert violence and win a physical outcome. people are looking for a vehicle. clearly he found the vehicle in jihadi propaganda on the internet. that was his vehicle to exude this anger and i think what happened in the mosque is he did
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not find a welcome audience for the degree -- remember, there are 3 million muslims in the country. there are very few of these incidents. most of these folks do not ascribe to this type of violent rhetoric and that made him more angry. it didn't justify his propensity toward violence. >> dr. anne speckhard and dan bogino. i hope we had more time. thank you both. next, will the brother tsarnaev keeps innocent mothers, brothers, sister and father from living the american dream? stay with us. this is our [ bleep ] city, and nobody going to dictate our freedom. stay strong. thank you. hey! did you know that honey nut cheerios has oats that can help lower cholesterol? and it tastes good? sure does! wow. it's the honey, it makes it taste so... well, would you look at the time... what's the rush?
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>> 9:00 in watertown, massachusetts. >> suspect is in custody. he is alive. >> dzhokhar tsarnaev has been apprehended. >> we have a victory here tonight. >> people, professionals, who brought their "a" game. tonight i think we're all going to rest easy. >> i can't be prouder of my community. >> this is our [ bleep ] city. >> there will be future marathons and i think they'll be bigger and better than ever. >> the two actors here have either been arrested or killed. >> it's important that we do this right. that's why we have investigations. >> what do you think provoked him? >> being losers. hatred to those who were able to settle themselves. >> i am, like, 100% sure that my two sons are really innocent.
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>> there is someone who brainwashed them. some newly convert to islam. >> there are still many unanswered questions. >> are there other conspirators out there? are there other explosives out there? where do they get their radicalization? >> this man should be a potential enemy combatant. >> battlefield is in the united states. >> the ball was dropped. >> this is the fifth case i'm aware of where the fbi failed to stop someone who ultimately became a terrorist murderer. >> given the events of this week, it's important for us to understand the gaps and loopholes in our immigration system. >> we're not going to let them use what happened in boston as an excuse. >> 9 99% of. that's where the threat is coming from. >> let's to our panel. joe welsh. with me in new york, jonathan alter, columnist for "the bloomberg view," msnbc political analyst. new book "center holds obama and his enemies" is out june 4th.
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some believe the boston marathon bombing means de facto we should pause, slow down the process of immigration reform. john mccain calls that ludicrous. what do you think? >> i'm with john mccain on this one. i mean, this is almost pathetic kind of excuse. what does it have to do with a mexican living in the united states who has done everything right and wants their kids to be able to get ahead in american life? what is this incident in boston have to do -- >> the argument is these are two individuals who emigrated from dagestan, from chechnya, came here, and ended up wreaking havoc. >> so what the critics don't get is that what the immigration bill would do, if you actually look at where they are in their preparation of it, is it would strengthen our immigration laws and make it harder for bad guys to get in by modernizing our immigration system. so people who say that, you know, this is an argument
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against immigration reform, even if they're in the united states senate, simply don't know what they're talking about. >> maybe they haven't read the bill. mr. welsh, do you agree with the rand pauls and steve king that the bombings mean we should slow down the pace of immigration reform? >> yes, i thing we ought to slow down the pace because i think it's an unworkable piece of legislation. look, martin, there's a rush. republicans are rushing to do this because they're afraid of the politics. democrats are rushing for immigration reform because they want 11 million voters. we're at war, and this country got a stark reminder last week, again, we're at war, and not only should we take applause, martia pause when it comes to immigration, profile who the enemy is in this war, young muslim men. >> mr. welsh, what's the relationship between 11 million undocumented immigrants who have been living here for a long time working in various low-paid jobs, who'd like to pursue a
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pathway to citizenship? what is the relationship between that group and terrorists? >> the fact is, martin, neither you or i or jonathan knows of the 11 million, and it's more than 11 million, how many are bad characters. and what we're going to do is replicate what we did in '86, provide amnesty to all of them. which in essence is providing legal status to a lot of bad characters. you know, martin, there's also a piece of this legislation that bans our law enforcement officials of profiling. we need to profile even when it comes to our immigration policy. >> joe walsh says racial profiling, he's all for it. >> well, look, i mean, i think that we can have a more sophisticated argument than talking about racial profiling, which in many cases is just rank racial discrimination. unnecessary in terms of catching terrorists. which is a product not of crass
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profiling but a very sophisticated investigative work. which by the way, our authorities generally do an excellent job even if the fbi might have made some mistakes in this case. so this kind of emotional argument that the former congressman is making is not helpful in moving forward in a reasonable way. and it's an apples and oranges situation to say that somehow, you know, because we have these two losers who committed this heinous crime that, therefore, that casts dispersions on thousands of other people who are in this country and don't happen to have been natural born american citizens. that doesn't make them bad actors, bad people, or even any more likely to be suspicious as bad people. by the way, the bad guys, the obama administration has dramatically increased deportations as you know of the real criminals who we tend to be able to find and deport when necessary. >> mr. walsh? >> jonathan, these two guys, jonathan, these two guys weren't just losers. they were part of radical islam.
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they were radicalized. >> that's right. >> this is a threat we've known has existed for a number of years. >> it has nothing to do with the immigration bill. it's irrelevant. it's not being rushed through as you said. the bill has been pending for white a whi quite a while. >> jonathan, it's sophisticated mindsets like yours that get americans killed because you don't recognize we're at war. >> joe, i think i can call you joe now since you're not in congress anymore. you know, that's kind of -- that's the kind of level of debate saying it's people like you who cause us to be hit by terrorists. that's what lowers the whole tenner of the conversation. makes it very hard to have reasonable, good policy-making. the emotion you apply to the issue is frankly very harmful to protecting us. >> it's the inability, jonathan, of people like you to recognize that we're at war. >> mr. walsh, thank you so much. i'm afraid we've run out of
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time. joe walsh, jonathan alter. hopefully we'll have you both again. thank you, gentlemen. next, what's wrong with this statement? nothing. if you don't believe in the u.s. constitution. stay with us. i'm here at my house on thanksgiving day,
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it's our fastest and easiest way to get you into your car. it's just another way you'll be traveling at the speed of hertz. a short time ago the white house announced they would try the surviving boston marathon bombing suspect in civilian court. but would not label him an enemy combatant. this did not suit senator lindsey graham of south carolina. >> i strongly disagree with the obama administration's decision to rule out enemy combatant status for this suspect at this time. i believe such a decision is premature. >> joining us now is ari melber, my colleague and co-host of "the cycle," also a lawyer. ari, at least twice mr. graham said the administration's decision to reject enemy combatant status was, quoting him, premature. do you agree with that?
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>> i don't. it's weird for senator graham to say it. what is premature is try to assert there would be a direct or substantial link between the suspect and al qaeda. that is the legal requirement to take an american away from the civilian courts and treat them as an enemy combatant. i believe senator graham who has a long history on detention issues and was a lawyer, himself, i think he knows that. because he knows that, he knows he is premature to suggest this when no reliable source and nobody in the government -- >> certainly not yet. >> -- has met that standard. >> let's listen to what senator graham said was his reason for using the enemy combatant tact. take a listen. >> if we have to clear the questions that we're going to ask to gather intelligence through the terror suspect's lawyer, we greatly diminished our ability to control the process. >> where has that ever occurred? >> well, it's not the problem at issue, right? there's two shortcomings there. number one, that's not how the
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unlawful combatant precedent works. the whole point is to take people off the battlefield if they are unlawful combatants or committing crimes against humanity, war crimes, not to question them. number two, as has been extensively reported on, there is already a mechanism for this in our standard criminal law, the public safety exception. >> right. okay. you've written about this issue for "reuters." there appears to be enough evidence to convict tsarnaev whether or not he's mirandized. you caution against that kind of the attitude. why? >> i think we have to be very careful here. on the one hand, the justice department may have strong legal precedent to extend the amount of time that you can do this questioning without giving people their rights and reading them to them. and that might go well past 50 minutes. on the other hand, we don't want this executive branch to just roll right over people because they are suspected terrorists. and we know from the bush administration, which was repeatedly rejected when it tried to create a separate class
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of rights and treatment for accused terrorists, the conservative supreme court rejected that approach. a series of decisions. and so we have to be very careful if the administration goes down this road, and takes several days, then what they are doing is in a more lawful way really stretching the boundaries of what we want and what we expect for the treatment of what our americans who are innocent until proven guilty before the court. we may hate what they did and have every right to feel that way. we don't have a right to dilute americans' rights. >> ari melber of "the cycle." what do republicans think of those calls to cut the ranks of first responders now? stay with us. >> he says we need more firemen, more policemen, more teachers. did he not get the message in wisconsin? the american people did. it's time for us to cut back on government and help the american people. hoo-hoo.
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prescribed by rheumatologists. that was the scene friday night after authorities in boston apprehended the second suspect in the marathon bombings. people poured on to the streets after being confined to their homes all day, to cheer police officers, firefighters, and other first responders for a job well done. all entirely deserved. but in recent years, funding for port transit, state and local security fell from its peak of $3.1 billion in 2009 to just over $1 billion this year. thanks to the sequester, those cuts, those funds will be cut even further thanks to 5% across the board cuts to most domestic programs. we're joined by karen finney, msnbc political analyst and soon to be anchor on this very network. karen, i guess. we needed a demonstration of why
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it's unwise to cut funding and lay off our first responders, didn't we just see that in boston? >> yes, we absolutely did. and, you know, we tend to have this conversation around whether it's hurricane sandy or, you know, some kind of crisis, because we then see our first responders in action. fortunately, as you remember so well, martin, last year during the campaign when we were talking about police, firefighters and teachers, they were public sector employees. right? and it was even chris christie who said to barack obama in 2012, i don't want any more stimulus money. the last thing i need is to hire more public employees. as we go through the policy deba debates, remember the consequences of the choices we're making and the people doing the work we're talking about. >> well said, karen. the president introduced the american jobs act in 2011. as you know, it would have provided states with $35 billion to prevent layoffs of everyone from teachers, to police officers and firefighters.
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of course, this went nowhere due to republican opposition in congress. representative jan schakowsky of illinois is reintroducing legislation that would put over 50,000 police officers and firefighters back on the beat. >> right. >> surely that legislation is now going to be given greater consideration, isn't it? >> surely you would think there's no possibility anyone could possibly, possibly oppose such a thing, right? you know, martin, again, it's going to be hard to tell because what we'll hear in the conversation is that we've got to make hard choices. i think what, you know, in the aftermath, though, of the boston incident should remind us is then our elected leaders need to be held accountable for those choices. if they choose, for example, to not pass legislation that would keep police and firefighters and teachers and other first responders, you know, in action, they need to come to the people and explain why they made that choice and they better have a good answer. >> much as they should in
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relation to legislation for universal background checks. >> well, absolutely. and much as they probably should, frankly, i mean, the sequester. i mean, you know, just last week you had james clapper of the intelligence, of dia essentially saying he was concerned about the degrading of our intelligence capabilities because of the sequester. you had the fbi saying that they were going to have to furlough every single employee for at least three weeks at some point during this period. we all understand tough choices, but as we can see now, and this week, those choices have real consequences. >> they certainly do. the republican house member who chairs the house committee on homeland security was asked if what happened in boston would change the priorities on security spending. here's what he had to say. "we have some homeland security funding available, and will always work to help our first responders, but as we crunch the budget we must realize we have a lot of issues that need to be funded including immigration concerns that have been raised by the events in massachusetts." it sounds to me they'd rather
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demagogue on immigration and show off to their base than address real security issues. >> bewell, that's exactly right. fra frankly, last year when pete king held a forum on lone wolf terrorism but focused on islam and muslims instead of the broad range of ways that we have extremists in this country who would do harm. but i think we're going to hear more demagoguing rather than getting down to the facts. >> thank you, karen. >> thanks. >> stay with us. [ male announcer] surprise -- you're having triplets.
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time now to clear the air. and there has been a genuine attempt to separate the actions of the tsarnaev brothers from the core beliefs of islam. with many makes the point that these individuals perpetrated horrifying criminal acts that have nothing whatsoever to do with the peace loving religion.
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i was reminded of what the president said a couple of years ago when he spoke at the pentagon to mark the ninth anniversary of 9/11. >> as americans, we are not and never will be at war with islam. it is not a religion that attacked us that september day. it was al qaeda. >> while that is no doubt true, there are plenty of places in the world today where violence is ostensibly being done in the name of islam. in the southern philippines, the islamic liberation front has been responsible for repeated bomb attacks since the 1970s which culminated two years ago in the south being granted a loose form of independence. in somalia, an off shoot of al qae qaeda, al shabaab, has been raging war with the transitional government, killed aide workers and imposed its own strict form of suharia law across much of te
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south. friday in nigeria, members of the islamic insurgency reportedly murdered 185 people with 2,000 homes destroyed and thousands displaced. it would be grossly unfair and unreasonable to accuse anyone of having criminal intent simply because of the god they choose to worship. but it's also a fact that many terrorists attacks are launched in the name of islam. and while the tsarnaev brothers may have believed that they were upholding the practices of their historic faith, all they have done is buried the peace, compassion and kindness of the koran in that murderous act last week. we'll be right back. i've always kept my eye on her... but with so much health care noise, i didn't always watch out for myself. with unitedhealthcare, i get personalized information and rewards for addressing my health risks.
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